Need help on Tire Dressing

We are a full-service carwash and apply our tire dressing by hand in the front area of the carwash. We are using a product by a company called P&S products called Wipe n shine. Having all kinds of problems with silicone getting on concrete and having to pressure wash it off once per week. Concrete is always black. 1.) does anyone have ideas on other tire dressings? 2.) thoughts on cleaning concrete?

I have used every freaking brand that I can think of for tire dressing, and there isn't anything that you can really do since tire dressings are either liquid, silicone, or foam based. You can try to spray the tire dressing directly on the tires or you can get a sponge/towel/pad and wipe it by hand but the tire dressing will come off the tires into the concrete. Only option I can think of is maybe place a towel on the concrete while you apply the tire dressing and wait till the tire dressing on the tire is fully dry before letting the car go, but that will take forever.

As a Chemical guy I can tell you that dressing will always build up on the concrete. If you use a water based emultion dressing it will not be as bad as if you use a solvent base. The Water base does not leave as high a shine as the water base but it is easier to clean up. The only other suggestion is to install a tire dressing machine in the tunnel to leave the majority of the drip off in your tunnel instead of the front lot. The machine from Sonny's leaves the least drip off.

Mark,
You are applying the dressing by hand, but are you using a sponge or brush? What kind? Are the cars getting a lot of sling from the dressing up the panels of the car? If this is happening your employees maybe applying too much dressing which will lead to excess run off on the ground. One of the reasons for this is the tires are coming out of the tunnel are still dirty. The dirty tire absorbs the dressing and dulls the shine causing the employees to put on more dressing to achieve the shine. The other reason is the employees are just applying too much dressing, the more is better philosophy is a constant problem with employees. You will always end up with some kind of chemical run off in your drying area.

Some locations, as Kevin said and they swear by it, do go to spraying the dressing on the tire. This can lead to other problems though. One is dressing overspray on the side of the car and surrounding customers cars. The dressing also sticks to the rim, and should be wiped out before finishing the car. The overspray dressing left on the car or rims will attract dirt. Not to mention dressing is notorious for shortening the life of sprayers.

Also as Kevin said some locations go with putting something under the tire when they apply the dressing. The most effective means of this in my experience is a "runner" under both sides of the car or mat that the cars are parked on. The major problems with this set up is wear and tear, and they have to be put down in the morning and take them up at night.

I hope this helps out
Danny
www.WASHWAYUSA.com

I would agree with Danny, if its such a problem your guys are probably using too much.

I'll tooot my horn. BioShine...no silicone...so it doesn't last as long. But many operators are finding our new 3rd generation product is pretty darn good. Only $8.70/gallon. Free 5g sample. Can't use it inside. Smells like vegetable oil(I wonder why?). But no driveway stains or slipperyness. Water soluable.
Most express tunnels (with on line applicators) have a black silicone trail leaving the wash. (google earth your location and see if it shows up on the satelite image)

check out www.annfordinc.com ... contact me for a sample

That wasn't too long of a salespitch, I hope. Just information.

Mark,

The time might be to move into the 21st century! I installed a Sonny's tire shiner in 2003 about 6 months after opening my tunnel. I bought it used for $4500. I cut my labor by 20-30%! Let's say it take you 2 mins per car to apply tire dressing and you do 60 full service cars. That 120 min a day or 2 hours a day of labor just appling tire shine! At $7.50 per hour plus 15% FICA/MC and WC that's about $20 a day. A tire shiner NEVER TALKS BACK, ALWAYS SHOW UP FOR WORK, NEVER CALLS IN.... IT DOESN'T STEAL YOUR CHEMICALS or APPLY TOO MUCH! I cut over 1 FTE in the first year that I installed a tire shiner! I figured that it took 3 min to apply tire shine to every car that I did. After accounting for lost chemicals, or over use, or missed tires.... the tire shiner payed for itself in 6 months at my site!

This kept all the silicone in the tunnel or in the exit of the tunnel and not in the detail area. It also prevent theft loss. Now I only buy 1 gallon bottle of tire shiner and keep it locked up for "touch ups". I lose much less... about $50 less a month than I use to. I always have 1-2 employees who run their own "detail" business on the weekends.... funny how tire shine always disapeared when I had it available!

Mark, ever try sales?

One of my concerns of going with a tire shiner...is customers do not see the employees applying it to their car. What are other advantages or disadvantages of using a tire shiner, such as Sonny's...in a very high, high end full service carwash.

No way would I have the guys put a towel down, way too much time. We apply it with a sponge rectange 6"X8" like you use on a sink.

Panamajim are you saying Bioshine will come off easier...because water based

and yes they are putting too much on the car just as every carwash in the country is...employees

Silicone is making your lot slippery. The chemistry in tire shine products removes carbon black from the tire and deposits it on your lot. Conclusion: tire shine products will keep your lot black and slippery.

Bioshine's chemistry will not remove carbon black and will not leave your lot slippery and black.

Bioshine will remain on the tire until water washes it off. That's the only downside of the product. Earlier formulations of Bioshine would wash off TOO easily. The current formulation is much more resistant to water, yet is still completely water soluble. Tests have shown that the product will remain after one rainy exposure.

You cannot tell the difference in shine between Bioshine and products containing silicone. You will be able to tell the difference in cost, in the appearance of your lot, in your reclaim system, and the long term effects on tires.

annfordinc@aol.com for info

RE: CLEANING THE LOT.

I was so preoccupied with Bioshine (above) I forgot to address your concern about cleaning carbon black off concrete.

FIRST, this only works on concrete. If you apply this concoction to asphalt, you won't have any more asphalt. Get a bag of sodium tripoly phophate light density and a bag of sodium metasilicate anhydrous. You can use any body detergent as a wetting agent. Read and understand all MSDS supplied with the chemicals. Do not add any other ingredients. Perform this early in the morning or after sunset. Sprinkle both powders on wet concrete. Add a small amount of carwash detergent until you see foaming. Agitate with a broom until ingredients are dissolved. Allow to sit for 5 minutes then remove with hose pressure. High pressure is not necessary and will only atomize the chemistry into the air. not good. A little more agitation may be necessary with the broom.

Your concrete should be clean. Powders may be obtained at a chemical distribution center like Univar or Ashland Chemical. Cost for the two bags will be around $200 and will last for years.

Any questions contact me at annfordinc@aol.com or on this board.

Hope this helps.

we hand applied our tire shine in our flex-serve bay three years ago with a tank swabby, but with our exterior volume missing out on this service for they would get in line for the interior just to recieve tire shine was stupid. not to mention when we were busy they would get a few free add on by accident( a few windows washed or vac) I installed the simoniz tire shiner and some people were upset because is is not 100 percent coverage. But I told them with slick conditions from the dressing on the floor is a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Hand applied shine made it like a ice rink in the interior bay. We use diamond shine and we love it we wash the floor once a week with hot water hose but still it's not at all slick and peolpe like and it can bu used as trim dressing so it's nice to use on our cars for friday nites.

Bioshine Tire dressing is becoming more and more popular. Jimmy made reference to Octopus Car Washes in a previous thread about having just the right chemicals in their operation - but they keep their chemical source to themselves. But Octopus (not surprising) applies tire shine after the tunnel (in the detail area) in their mid western car washes. AND, Octopus uses Bioshine. In-tunnel shine machines are a great addition to any wash, but it seems the best application for any product seems to be on a damp tire rather than "wet tire" and a water based product without the silicone is the ticket. The "wash down of silicone" in the tunnel is everyones solution to a slippery floor, but what about those times when an employee needs to enter the tunnel quickly during a good run of cars - AND no chance to wash it off. We all need to be cognizant of safety and the environment. Bioshine is the solution for both.

We all want that perfect looking on tire to satisfiy our customers - who doesn't ? There is a trade-off with all tire shines. Look, durability, will not deteriorate the rubber on the tire, reclaim, environmentally friendly and safety in the workplace.

Like it or not - Silcone is moving away from the car wash environment.

Joe

www.crowncarwashinc.com

Joe how much is your coinop tire shiner it would be a sweet addition to my IBA?

Mark,
Another option that many of my customers use when applying dressing by hand is a brush. It is more expensive than applicator sponges but traditionally lasts much longer (as long as it stays at your wash and doesn't grow legs and walk away). Many also tell me that they use less product after the initial application of product to the brush. Another plus to the brush for hand application is the employees keep the dressing off their hands, keeping their hands clean, and minimizes dressing from being transfered to the car from the employee's hands.

Danny
www.WASHWAYUSA.com

We have our Sonny's tire shine between the final rinse and the dryers. We use Black Magic from Ecolab and it covers great on almost all cars except for very small ones with mud flaps which puch the pad out of the way. If one of these people complain about their tires not getting shined we simply explain to them that its their mud flaps that cause our machine not to work but we are happy to give them a pre-packaged armorall sponge so that they can do it themselves.

As for the build-up, weekly pressure washing take scare of that (on the concrete in the tunnel and our exit pad which extends 30' out of the building. Given the small amount we use (since every car gets it) there is very little overage and thus a reduction of slinging.

For full service guys it is problematic for as much as people might desire it, it also creates an instant worker's comp nightmare. When we were full service we used to apply it by hand but the product would disappear without $$$s in the drawer. Then we went to a system of using the pre-packaged armorall sponges which only the cashier had access to suring the day. The only problem with that was the manager and assistant manager doing the stealing. Any service you provide off line is problematic for theft. On-line services are the only way to ensure that when the drum drops, money goes in the drawer.

Originally we were using prism for Simonize, but it never covered that well and it faded by the next day. The switch to Black Magic from Ecolab has been great. It not only covers well but lasts much longer. I washed my car on Saturday and even today my tires are still glossy and that after a couple days of rain in between.

We've had the Sonny's unit for 6 years now and I would not trade it for anything else on the market. Works great, effectively covers, and lasts long. What else can you ask for.

What is the verdict on acceptance of the self-serve tire dressing machine's such as the Bio-shine and Blendco's? What is the experience so far? How much are you charging for the application?

Stuart