back bumper

Yesterday, I had a 2002 Maxima's backbumper fall off on the right side. There wasn't any scratches or cracks on the bumper before going in the tunnel. I been around the car wash for 8 years and i have never seen something like that before. The guy was making a huge fuss and even called the cops. The cop was on the customer's side which was a first, and told them to get an estimate and make us pay for it... He came in with an estimate which was 750$. I am thinking of denying him and going to the court. Anyone had a similar incident with a back bumper and had to go to the court??

Oh and I know it wasn't us that made the back bumper fall off. We wash thousands of cars and stuff like this just doesn't happen... But for some reason, the cop had absolutely no reasoning even though we wash cops' cars all the time for free... And of course the customer wants a full payment for the supposed damage we caused...

1 more thing, it's not like scratches where the customer can't prove that we scratched it or not. The backbumper was in place before the tunnel, and it came off after the tunnel is what is bothering me since the bumper "came off after the wash" if we do decide to fight it in court.

I would go to a Maxima dealer to find out exactly how the bumper is attached to the car. Get a written opinion from a body shop for your hearing commenting on if an ordinary car wash "would be able to take off a bolted bumper" Even if a wrap got snagged, it still should not come off the car. The bolts could have been rusty or perhaps the bolts were in place and the nuts were gone. Either way, the bumper was not connected properly when it entered your tunnel. The local judge won't know how it should be attached either - as I said get an expert opinion. The customer will say that it was on when it went in and not on when it came out. Well. you could set a flower pot on top of the car too that will not still be there off after the wash - would it still be the fault of the car wash ? Cars are not assembled without bolts/fasteners,and bolted parts don't fall off. The Maxima auto manual will not indicate that this car cannot be washed in a commercial wash for risk of falling apart. Use some logic with the customer and judge.

I've got a line from the movie "Tommy Boy" you could use but it's not PG!

Anyway, a couple of points that I like to make. One, when this maxima was finish being built it was sent through a crwash tunnel PRIOR to his ownership which didn't take the bumper off. And two, let the owner watch the process and see where, why and how that couldn't be possible.
BTW, where I live, if the damage happens on private property and there is no crime, the police really don't have any authority on telling you what the outcome should be.
And please, skip the freebee wash on that cop's car!

Crown is right, have the bumper inspected by a reputable body shop. It sounds an awful lot like pre-existing damage contributed to the bumper falling off. I'd tell him we only wash cars, we don't make cars and let him take you to small claims court. I've been washing cars for 36 years and have never had a bumper fall off. In addition, given the direction of the brushes which is towards the front and away from the bumper, how could it have grabbed it in the first place?

I agree, the bumper most likely had pre-existing condition. I have never heard of that happening. If you end up in small claims court you may try finding service manuals on that make, model and year. I am not sure if they will cover the bumper or not but worth looking into as a reference material(Chilton books are usually pretty good) to show the judge. Next time remind the officer that he is there for criminal activity and should not be giving his opinion on a matter for civil court. If he can or cannot give his opinion on the matter I have no idea, but he may not know either and keep his opinion to himself next time.

Do you have a disclaimer at the entrance of your tunnel. One of my disclaimers says that I am not responsible for rusted, and/or body parts not properly attached to the vehicle. The police responded as anyone probably would who is not in the car wash business. It was on - now it's off. Same goes for the customer. These people don't know how your equipment operates and what it can or cannot do. Frankly if my wife went to another car wash and had this happen, then I would be saying the same thing. You simply need to present the real facts on why this happened. Of course you need to have the car to inspect it. Whatever reason there was for this no longer exists since the bumper is now attached. As everyone has said - you need an expert opinion. Hopefully whoever re-attached the bumper told the customer why it came off and maybe you will never hear about this from the customer again.

Joe

We have a warning sign before the car goes through stating that we are not responsible for damaged vehicles. Here is the problem. Before the car went through, the back bumper looked perfectly normal. Our security video also shows that back bumper looks fine. A saample I gave to the customer was that you can't judge a human by its appearance to see if the human is perfectly healthy or not. Same as the cars. Also customers were very rude and when they came inisde the office to give us an estimate, you could smell marijuana from that guy... Also it will be difficult to get an expert opinion with that car because that guy isn't being very cooperative, and he will not go with us to a body shop unless we pay for it... I know it is not our fault that the back bumper came off but my debate is whether it is worth it to go fight it out at the small claims court and end up losing than pay off the price for the back bumper.

Your case for this should be that a bumper will not come away from the car if it bolted - end of story. Your car wash is not called "demolition car wash - is it", so why should it take of bumpers ?? I would bet that this guy is looking for the judge to award some monetary adjustment so he can buy more drugs. Here's some legal advice though I am not a lawyer, I have alot of years counseling on and preparing contracts. "you need an opportunity to cure the situation. This does not include not having access to the damged car to ascetain liability or not". Take it to your shop to get the estimate. If it goes to his shop then he will have the quote fixed. Have your guy write on the quote why he thinks it happened. There's your evidence and expert opinion.

At this point I would tell the customer to kiss my -----.
Get a little tough. This guy is walking all over you. Be sure to lay a blanket on the ground so you won't get dirty.

Joe

Oh thanks for the feeback guys. Greatly appreciate your help and advice.

I can't believe the cops said that, I have had people call the cops before even when I am accepting a claim and everything is going smooth.. the cops usually get irritated and just ask if there is any violence and say it's a civil dispute not their peoblem...

I would always ask if the customer is the original owner of the vehicle, they may have never been in an accident but the previous owner could have... or done damage to it somehow.

Because the bumper was not damaged, this proves the mounting hardware was broken before the wash. No matter how the bumper is fastened to the frame there would be substantial damage to the bumper if the wash had pulled it off.

Tell the gentleman to submit it to his insurance company and have their insurance company contact you. Let the insurance companies duke it out. Good luck.

I'm a little surprised by the negative and adversarial positioning against the customers in these threads. I'm an experienced operator who has BIG exterior volumes and i've seen a number of bumper "covers" fall off. Bumber covers are not bumpers guys. Bumpers are bolted onto the frame, bumper covers are oftentimes held on by plastic push pins or clips and come in pretty colors to match the body.

Just last week a 4-year old Saturn station wagon came in and the very first wrap grabbed the driver's side wheel well and pulled out the plastic clips dropping the corner of the bumper cover to the ground / conveyor. It was clear as a bell on the video. The customer freaked at the exit, we calmed her down, we researched the incident, and then we repaired the damage. She didn't know her car was going to do that, nor did we. It looked just fine to everyone at the entrance, but we still took care of it. Shit happens guys and we have to take care of it sometimes. Swallowing some damage is better than a customer poisioning the water everywhere they swim.

If a bumer or bumper cover blows off in the downward forced air blowers we deny responsibility. If it comes off at point-of-contact with a wrap, we review the video carefully and look for misaligned seams or body panels. Then we run a CARFAX report for $30 and look the vehicle history or anything else we can find on the vehicle. Often we find the owners bought the 60,000 mile car 10,000 miles ago from a used car dealer, who bought it from an auction, which came from another auction, which was previously used in a fleet program somewhere. With a history like that we say sorry.

I think we can admit some cars are more durable than others, some car washes are more aggressive than others, and some engineering is just plain awful. Ever wash a Ford 500 and watch the colored drip rail covers blow off? Damn near every one of them blows off in our blowers. The Ford 500 is a brand new car that works fine while driving forward through air, but when the air blows downward, all sorts of stuff blows off. Thats when I blame it on quality and engineering, not me.

Ever load a vehicle with low front tire pressure and it jumps the rail? Your employees can easily miss a tire with 10-lbs of air in the front left side, so they load it because your doing 80 cars an hour, it grabs a rail b/c the front-end is mis-aligned, then it climbs up and over the rail before smashing into your high pressure equipment, which causes a rear end collision behind her. What would you do then? Remember you loaded it and didn't deny them entry. I could have blamed the driver when i pushed my thumb a half inch into her tire's sidewall during the accident review process. But i didn't b/c I loaded it. I've been there and ate those damamges fellas.

Its all part of the experience and i absolutely love this business.

Just my .02 cents.

Wax

Jim,
I've been washing cars since 1987 with wraps and rockers.
I have never taken off a cover (?) or a bumper. I don't know of any other wash in my area that has either. Irregardless of how it was engineered - the wraps or blower should not take off these items. I would think there where would have been more of possibility to take off bumper in the 70's when they were steel and wraps could "grab onto something". most bumpers today are sleek and smooth and the wraps generally glide along side and across smoothly. I don't know what a cover on a bumper is (to be frank). I guess I will know when I take one off.

Joe

Here you have a 6-7 year old car and lo and behold the parts wore out and the bumper fell off. Lay it on the line with this pothead that you don't make them you just wash them and if he doesn't want to cooperate with you by getting the alleged damage inspected by a body shop, then how serious could he be. Chances are he knows what they'll say.

Whether it looked normal on the video as it entered and given the astronomical rarity of such damage by your equipment, (we may have had 0ne bumper cover off in the last 11 years) one can easily deduce that there was either prior damage or the part in question was faulty to beguin with. In any event, you are not responsible for pre-existing conditions. You should not be responsible for that anymore than you would be if someone's muffler and tailpipe fell off coming up the entrance ramp or even inside the wash.

Now as to whether or not to cover the repair. You have two answer the following questions. How close does the customer live to your market area? Does he commute by your location reularly? Is he he a regular, semi-regular, or infrequent customer? The answers to these questions either give you more or less of an incentive to cover the claim whether you feel you should or not.