Express versus Full Service

I do realize that it varies, but generally speaking, if Express and Full both gross say a $1M in annual revenue, which model will have more take home profit? Meaning, who has better profit margin?

To me it seems that full service will have better margin because the higher price tag will outweigh the labor burden. What is the generally accepted anser here?

Thanks,

Tom

I'd rather have a mini-storage facility or several IBA's doing a million than either conveyors. But If I have to pick from those two...give me an express.

But an express that does a million a year is not the norm. Much less is the norm in the south. A million would be closer to the norm for a full service than an express. Would you rather have a calm working environment and take home 40% of $500k or pull your hair out for 20% of million? Neither is easy money and there are multiple failures at both. It's getting more difficult every year, to make a good living.

It takes a lot of energy and drive to run a good full service. I operate 3 low volume expresses and that's easier than 1 full serve.

I think with rising wages, worker policies, less disposable income, the economics points to express exterior. Your margin of profit is usually much greater and your less likely to "Pull out your hair." We have been running a Full Service for 19 years and I think it is time to make a change.

not sure what the "norm" is, but one of our expresses last year did almost two million...express over full serve every time for me

Do the math, 50% labor factor and half the volume vs. 18% labor factor and double the volume. The basis of your question was non-sensical as there are very few stand alone exteriors (not expresses) I know if that take in $1 million. If they do, they in areas with winter wash weather 4-5 months out of the year with traffic counts of 40-50,000 or more.

With full service, especially one with a myriad of off-line services, your labor factor per car is usually equal to the base price of your wash with the vast majority of your profits coming as a result of upselling the customer. The dirty secret of full service is that, all things being equal, to ensure the highest of quality on the inside, you'll be lucky to achieve a labor ratio of 2-3 cars per employee per hour (e.g. 60 cars requires 20-30 employees). Now you can always push that enevelope and try to get 4 or even 5 cars per man per hour, but not without quality taking a back seat to volume. This means that instead of 60 good cars per hour with 20-30 people, now your getting that same 60 with only 10-15 people. You tell me how that does not necessarily have a deleterious impact on overall wash quality and consequently on customer perception and satisfaction.

Most importantly, your headaches are cut by 90% with exterior vs. full serve and you'll have plenty of free time to spend with family. With full serve, you need to on site, inspecting quality, shaking hands, kissing babies and dealing with all the personal problems of those employees. NO THANK YOU!

Exterior only everday and twice on Sundays

Oh and never forget the value of less employees! For every employee I have I have to up my dose of Tylenol. Jim, the mini storage idea gets better everyday. Ahh who am I kidding I'm a lifer in this business.

Hey... this is not an "all... or nothing at all" issue. The flex-serve model enjoys ALL the benefits of exterior washing... as well as ALL the BENEFITS of full-service operations... with very few labor issues to worry about.

Most seasoned carwash operators will admit that carwashing is a destination purchase; not a drive-by impulse thing. When the impulse motivates, most drivers have already decided on where they'll go to get a wash.

One huge benefit of operating a flex-serve is that it offers everything consumers want, so a good flex-serve operation will take the customer off-the-market from others who only offer exterior washing. Plain and simple, if you don't offer some form of hands-on service, you can't take the customer away from others. And sharing your customer with others keeps them susceptible to jumping elsewhere... once they find a good flex-serve!

A flex-serve operation can be as big... or small as you wish... because it is a scalable (any size fits all) platform. Aftercare can function quite profitably with a staff of two (2)! A flex-serve can wash & dry as many vehicles as the best exterior anywhere... and still enjoy sweet & scalable hands-on profits that keep customers coming back... and back... and back... and back again.

It is the quintessential automatic carwash platform... and the best model for all economic conditions! Why compromise?

-Steve

If there wasn't already too many full serves in my market, I would certainly still have one location that was flex serve. There's a demand for it in most markets. To do the express "right", with a good number of free vacs, it takes a lot of land to do flex "right". There are some difficulties mixing a low priced-low service product on site with employees wanting tips and customers wanting to by-pass usual fees. You've also got to keep your supplies away from the exterior customers or they will using them at will.

Was Flex-serve for 5 years prior to that traditional full serve for 50years. In August we switched to exterior Only we turned our flexserve bay into a new touchfree automatic. Our free vacs wrote a new business plan for us and with our new IBA we have made over 300 dollars since closing. I was lucky to make that for 10 hours with labor and headaches doing offline vac and windows. I currently have a tent where I do A Express Interior (vac and window) for 19.95 no wash included. I will offer ir seasonaly becasuse we are up cold a** NH. I do on avg. 10-20 a day. I never thought that people would pay it because I was charging 7 dollars before, i may have done a few more but I would pay 4-5 guys to do it. Now I pay one and make more money and do less. Crazy huh. Belive it or not but the idea is from Martha Stewarts Book. She said when she started out she was making pies for 5 dollars at craft fairs and flea markets. She was lucky to sell a handful in a weekend. She then started charging 10 dollars for the same pies at the same locations and sold out on the first day. I think you have to rate the service on what the prople don't want to do. The price must show that the service or product must be wicked good to get that kind of money for it. If things keep going like this I will build a small outbuilding and do these all year long again(Uggg). Our touchfree crowds our now joining in on this service. This last saturday 1 girl and a little help from our tunnel attendants in between cars did 42 of them. Bewtween my tunnel, IBA and Express interior we grossed over $6000 with three people. I think before deciding on flexservem especaially with labor and the up and down economy. I know from past expreincesm that a model like this could make things easier for a lot of carwashes

Hey! Wake up... and realize that you are STILL DOING FLEX-SERVE! It seems evident that you really aren't clear as to what flex-serve is, and isn't.

AN EXPRESS EXTERIOR IS A FLEX-SERVE COMPONENT.

And your HANDS-ON SERVICE to 42 customers WAS AFTERCARE, another flex-serve component. AFTERCARE IS SCALABLE; ADJUSTABLE, ADAPTABLE, MINIMALLY SMALL TO GRADUALLY LARGER ON DEMAND. Even though your "1 girl" characterization was a stupidly sexist reference, SHE AND "A LITTLE HELP FROM YOUR TUNNEL ATTENDANTS" basically filled the gap between NO LABOR and HANDS-ON LABOR.

And as for Martha Stewart, welcome to the wonderful world of supply and demand. When you pay attention to it, your profits can soar.

So, before you piss all over flex-serve, why don't you first find out what the heck you're talking about.

In spite of the misunderstanding, I'm really glad it's working out so well for you! Let me know if you have any more questions or concerns. I'd be glad to help.

-Steve

Hey Steve, are there any negatives to flex-serve or is it simply the best thing since sliced bread and something everyone should adopt. I hate to break your bubble, but many full serve operators are sick and tired of seeing declining wash volume and a complete lack of employees who actually give a crap about the quality of the job they are doing and the ones you do find and are there only because they couldn't hold a job at McDonalds.

While I agree Flex-serve is the high wash volume hybrid between exterior only and the services traditionally associated with full service (I know and then some). The switch to complete exterior only is often a heavenly and exhilirating experience. Now instead of finding 6-20 employees depending on the day and weather; Instead of sending out 250+ W2 forms every year. Instead of scheduling 30 guys just to ensure 20 actually show up, oyu open with 1-2 people and maybe add a 3rd or even a 4th on your peak wash days. Now you get to truly pick only the best employees and not settle for a dozen guys from the city mission who you put in people's vehicles at your own peril.

Now you actually keep more of the money you make and make your life infinitely easier.

That said, hey, if your 20 or 30 years old and you're a real go getter and don't mind spending 50-60+ hours at your business more power to you. Three pieces of wisdom my Father left me with. One was "Don't forget to step back and smell the roses." The other was, "No one on their death bed ever said, Gee I wish I had worked just one more day." The last one was nothing is more important than family." Now my Father worked those 60 hours plus a week for 37 years and in the winter time it seemed like I rarely saw him. He worked nearly all of his life because he had to to be able to provide for his family. Had we not made the switch to exterior only 11 years ago I would not have the tremendous free time to spend with my children and wife. Open another wash? Sure, make twice as much and work twice as hard. Just remember pigs get fat but hogs go to slaughter. Maybe one day when the kids are on their own, but at this moment I would not trade the ability to spend these years with them for anything in the world!

Wow what a beating, I guess this forum isn't for all comments with out getting attacked for it. You want to talk about paying attention try working 80 hours a week with two young kids at home because like may operators in here I DO!!!! Secondly I can thank my flex-serve for being able to spend 700,000 updating my wash and adding an IBA in the last 9months. Enabling me to spend more time at home and not at the wash. I offer my express interior part-time and seaonally and by me saying 1 girl that pissed you off, I believe that the women are better workers then the guys. More paticular and better work ethics so I apolgogize to say "1Girl" I never pissed on flex-serve but offered a tidbit of info from a current operator and mistakes that I may have made in the past. i offered a different model that I'm doing to try to offer the service to primarily handicapped people or widowed elderly wives. That seems to be my current clientel. So you know what you wake up maybe before shooting your moulth off before knowing all the info. Never in my post I pissed on flex-serve, and saying I don't know what I saying, well you got a big misunderstanding because I DO whats going on! You want to talk to me like your the king of flex-serve your wrong I worked the line, and saw where if I didn't do something to benefit my work life I was going to DIE here~!!!! My family has owned and oparted carwashes for over 55years you want real live info you got it here

Steve how much is you book anyway? (ebay has a few)

Many flex-serve operators spend considerable amounts of quality time with their families, especially with the advent of video-oversight and on-line management software that provides real-time feedback. And with the revenue streams no longer muddled by the old full-service overhead management tools, a clear flex-serve business picture with operational oversight is a few key strokes away.

I emphasized the fact that flex-serve is scalable (infinitely adaptable on a sliding scale related to real-time demand) because so many operators make the mistake of operating it like off-line full-service, a misguided concept that often embraces the same inefficiencies that full-service carwashing does... with too many stereotypical attendants hanging around... and moving with no particular dispatch. Ergonomic production cell methodology is one significant difference. Cross-trained, well equipped and better paid staff working towards more quality production with less fatigue makes good business sense. Greater performance... with less labor. And the ability to monitor and manage real time overhead.

There are flex-serve operations that have what is considered part-time aftercare on select days (week-ends) or times of the year (seasonal, etc.) with good success. Others that started out that way have grown into a year-round format. Flex-serve is adaptable to meet the particular needs of any carwash facility... and serve the needs that each marketplace demands for its clientele.

Okay, you did strike a nerve with the Neanderthal-like comment. Didn't mean to offend you with my knee-jerk reply, but it seemed to me (after re-reading your post) that you were inferring that flex-serve required more than a staff of 2. And, in turn, you were also talking about "a girl" (in a disparaging way... which should upset us all) "and some tunnel attendants".

As well, why you need tunnel attendants with your existing model is beyond me. Nevertheless, you seemed better served as a result of having them provide a rather loose yet profitable version of hands-on service... by helping "the girl". Yes, both male and female staff offer a perfect fit for aftercare tasks. Unfortunately, the negative stereotypes in this business often limit more female staff from applying, and that is a genuine loss.

Not here on a sales mission. If you can buy the book on e-bay, go for it. Although the later editions have more photos and a bit more content, the genesis of the flex-serve operating platform has been consistent since its introduction over ten years ago. There are a bunch of very fine points in the text that require thought and quiet reflection. Earlier readers frequently commented that they found themselves re-reading it several times to get its full benefit, often finding something new with each read. I never felt that to be a drawback... and invite anyone who's read it to contact me with questions anytime. I'm delighted to assist.

Sorry for the quite passionate coffee-induced knee-jerk response...

-Steve

Steve I understand your post but getting upset that I said "1 girl" is crazy. Never have I been or would be sexist to a girl that works for me. I guess that specifics about my Saturday should be cut down to just the basic info. When I was "full-time flex-serve" I employed more women then men. Some how it just worked out that way but lets clear up all stereotypes rite NOW. On this last saturday 3 attendants banged out 42 Express Interiors. I apologize to anyone that took offense to that 1 mentioned 1 was a girl attendant. She has been with me for over 6 years and became part of our family here. Steve I mentioned the gratitude you were expressing towards her in your post, she said thanks, but somewhat puzzled by it!!!! I think that my 2 cents are done here good luck to all. Oh ya--Why I need to have attendants is that I never said I was express exterior. I still meet and greet each face and prep the vehicle before the wash process. On busy days i have a staff of three attendants to greet-load and prep. But the 1 women that I employ, volunteered to do interiors for she enjoys doing them more then being soaked all day.

Girls, women, females...I couldn't have survived the full serve or flex serve business without 'em. I know lots of operators that have female managers (as I did) and wouldn't trade them for all the gold in China. My best ever, worked for me from the age of 14(she lied about her age) to the age of 36. Of my 8 express attendants (for 3 locations), I have 3 females today.

I must have the distinction of the only car wash to have ever built an onsite daycare for just their employees. I did! Spent $50,000, state certified, inspected every 6 mths, playground, licensed director, you name it. Heck, the only other business in my county that stuck their neck out for their female employees and built them a daycare was the locale 3,000 employee, hospital.

We operated about 3 years, then volume went down and the utility of the whole thing went south. I tried. It continues to amaze me, how much more productive and quality oriented women are than men.(generally speaking) I worry more about my female employees having to close locations alone at night. That's not prejudical but paternal.

Steve, I think you misunderstood the "1-girl" comment for one of disdain when in actuality, it was a comment of admiration and surprise. Mis-understandings happen, with emails and communications like this. Face to face conversations don't have that weakness...we read people's voices and faces to pick up inflections of attitude.

Steve: How do you handle the demand for after care services on a 1,000 wash day when 300 customers want them and you have only the ability to to do 100?

Answer, you throttel back those services? Great, so I just told 200 customers to take a hike, we're too busy to do the inside if your car. I bet that makes them happy.

Also, with the price of gas, how many times are people going to be denied the servies they desire before they simply stop trying. Inconsistency of hours open or services offered is a recipe for disaster.

Again, I'll ask the question. Are there any (other) negatives with flex-serve?

Oh and if I'm going to sit and watch my operation over the web all day long to make sure the employees are doing what they are supposed to do and not doing what they are not supposed to do, I may as well be there.

And if you can control quality over the web, you must have a lot of really sharp focused cameras overlooking each cell or actually on each attendant.

Michael...

I apologize if my response made you uncomfortable. As well, Sorry I confused your operation with an express exterior. My comments, while spirited, were not intended to be an attack, especially towards someone I respect. Like I said, your comment struck a nerve, and elicited a knee-jerk reaction.

Bill, my friend...

As for the theoretical, why do you continue to whine about all the missed business that might not be accommodated in the aftercare area... instead of simply adding up all the profits of the happy customers who were served?

If and when it's needed, an operator can control the service demand with the basic laws of supply versus demand... accompanied by a service advisor with finesse skills.

In a whimsical answer to your somewhat stilted question, what would YOU do if 3000 vehicles wish to have their cars washed at your exterior between 10:00 AM and 1:00 PM? Speed up your conveyor to 1000 cars per hour? No, you'd hopefully do your best to accommodate each customer... one at a time. Why? Because that's a reasonable solution.

Even Cleveland must have some extremely popular no-reservation restaurants that serve excellent food but can only seat a finite number of diners at one time. What do they do when more hungry people show up, demanding a table? Do they ask people to sit on the laps of others?

And, with regard to the ability to monitor a carwash operation via the Internet, liken that to your cell phone technology. Just because you have a cell phone that connects you with your family, do you have them continually talk to you throughout the day, providing tabs on what they are doing... and where they are going, minute-by-minute? Sound silly? Then why would you consider that level of obsessive oversight at your carwash? If that level of oversight is required to make you happy, maybe you can tape all the day's events for late-night re-viewing... while resting quietly at the Happy Thoughts Sanitarium.

Honestly, Bill... you seriously need to consider a hobby... or maybe some Zen-like yoga calming routines. Possibly some soothing tea... or even drugs. Incense?

I'd hate to think that obsessing about missing out on the tremendous advantages of flex-serve might cause a stroke or something. And, NO... I do not recommend sitting in front of your computer screen, obsessing about your carwash operation... or your camera focus. And do not even consider moving your home to the second floor of your carwash.

Your exterior-only one-price (or is it two, now?) carwash format keeps you happy... and makes you money. Be thankful for that... and stop obsessing about aftercare. We've all heard about why you choose not to implement flex-serve at your site. Okay, that's your choice. You're making all the money you choose to make, and that's also fine. Let's all hope that a well-run flex-serve operation isn't coming to your neighborhood.

And since you asked, I am in the midst of writing a complete How-To-Do-It booklet on the Flex-Serve Aftercare process with a comprehensive explanation of production cell methodology. It will fully explain how to control production throughput that mindfully avoids a back-up or clog. As well, it will delve into the latest use of moving-floor conveyors for high-performance Aftercare processing. It will redesign the footprint of Aftercare processing with a significant upgrade that dramatically increases productivity with the same sliding-scale adjustments that made Flex-Serve the quintessential automatic carwash operating platform.

Anything else?

If not, I wish you all good health and much prosperity...

-Steve

No hard feelings Steve, This forum is meant for critisizm between operators. But I do thank flex-serve for the life style I leed. But for me in the northeast the labor and weather played to much in the equation with a stay at home mom with 2 kids under 2. thats why I'm offering my mini inside detail. I love doing it and I am only gonna do it 3 months out of the year. When I took it away people were pissed but now that I do it and do a lot more within the service people seem to appreciate it more. My attenfants are making 75 bucks a day in tips. They should be buying me lunch!!!! Finally we are washing some cars thank GOD

To all - my two cents:
This topic is out of hand. We have to many "know it alls" or "lords of the wash". No one is completely wrong. Whatever works in your wash with your customers should be applauded by others. This site is meant to talk about issues and to RECOMMEND solutions - not to criticize each other. This site is a terrific learning curve for new operaators and old salts in the industry. Let's keep the dialogue simple, pleasant and informative.

After reading above, I dare not want to bring up how I run my wash.

Throw the change out there. Some will pick up the quarters, some the dimes and nickels and some won't be picked up at all. To each his own.

Look, when people go to a restaurant without a reservation they wait or go to another restaurantand they understand it. Its a little different when you go to the restuarant, wait for 30 minutes to an hour, then seat you. When the waitress comes over tells you, "Sorry, we're just too busy so you can only order off the lunch menu not the dinner menu".

Tell me Stevie, how many flex- serves are processing 200-300 cars a day.

Call it what you will, after care or off line full service. Hey you can gift wrap (bleep) but when you open it its still (bleep).

Bill...

I caution you, my friend. As long as you continue to refer to flex-serve aftercare as... "off-line full service", you'll risk being associated with "great pretenders" the likes of Gaudreau and his nefarious rabbit farmers... and you're clearly so, so much better that that. A different league entirely.

Conservatively speaking, all an operator needs is 2 cross-trained aftercare staff... working in a production cell... to generate more than $500-800 net... without working up a sweat. Multiply that by however many production cells and teams of 2, and you'll soon recognize that volume isn't the dynamic. NET profit is!

Bill, the operator doesn't have an obligation to serve everyone that comes to his site. But, there is an absolute obligation to provide the very best service and quality results for every customer served. In the end, you can only do... what you can do.

As for your self-indulgent challenge — those aftercare operators can speak for themselves, if they choose to entertain you. As you know, I can't speak for them.

-Steve

Lets end the topic here, everyone has said their piece.

One final word - if I may.

Let's not take swings at each other - there has been too much of that on this topic. Let's all help each other and offer polite recommendations.

I thinks in any topic we should say what we do and how it works for us.
Throwing rocks does not encourage operators to participate. I don't walk around with a "hallo" over my head and I don't think anyone else does either.

Thanks to all!

Joe